Renewable energy in agriculture with Karin Stark

Michele Ong

Welcome to STEAM Powered, where I have conversations with women in STEAM to learn a little bit about what they do and who they are. My guest today is Karin Stark.

Karin is an advocate for renewable energy in the farming sector and has founded the National Renewables in Agriculture Conference. She has a background in environmental science and sustainable development, and has also worked in projects relating to sustainable transport.

Join us as we talk about art, the London cycle hire scheme, and renewable energy in agriculture.

So, hi! Thank you for joining me, Karin. This is hopefully gonna work given all of our tech troubles this morning.

Studying Environmental Science and Sustainable Development.

Michele Ong

Um, so yes, you studied environmental science and sustainable development at uni, and where did you think that was gonna take you when you first started?

Karin Stark

Yeah, so that's a good question. So I've always, ever since I was really little, I've always been interested in the natural world and conserving the natural world, and in particular in animals. And I was a bit of an animal rights activist.

So I initially started Murdoch, um, studying biological sciences. But halfway through the first, um, semester, I realised I'd have to dissect a lot of animals and that goes against my values of what– of how I think we should be treating animals. So I went to talk to the Dean or the professor and he said to me, you might as well just change to environmental science 'cause you- you know, it's gonna be very hard for you to get out of doing that type of work.

And I guess I'm not big in being in laboratories and stuff like that anyway, so I changed to environmental science and it was the right road for me because that has opened up a lot of opportunities, um, and I guess I was hoping I could work in conservation, to be honest. Um, the bush regeneration, animal conservation, stuff like that.

Working in sustainable transport.

Michele Ong

When you finished graduating from that, how, like, where'd you go from there?

Karin Stark

Well, I had a year off, so I went over to the UK with a couple of friends and at that stage I had no idea how to actually, um, look at professional work over there. So I worked in a ski shop and pubs and stuff like that, and we traveled Europe together.

So I came back and what I, what I had done at university was volunteer, um, with a program called TravelSmart, and that was with the Department of Environment in Perth. And because of that volunteering, um, I sent my CV out to lots of different environmental organisations, not knowing what I would do, and they recognised my name and they invited me to come in for an interview.

Um, and I was actually interviewed by my partner now, my husband John, my partner, um, and, and our manager in a role in community, um, based social marketing. So community education, and trying to get people not to use single-occupancy vehicle cars. So that was kind of my first professional role.

The London Cycle Hire Scheme.

Michele Ong

And how did that lead you to all the bike programs that you, um, handled in London? The London cycle hire scheme?

Karin Stark

Yep. So, because I was working in sustainable transport and getting people to cycle and walk and use public transport rather than, uh, single-occupancy vehicles, cars, um, because of pollution and, um, and smog, and issues we had in Perth. I knew someone over in the UK who said that there was a shortage occupation at the moment in transport consultancy, so I could actually get a visa for five years to work over in the UK, in, in transport.

Um, because I'd already used my two year working visa, I– it was the only opportunity I had to go over to the UK again. So I moved over to the UK and, and worked in environmental management for a while, but then a job came up at Transport for London, looking at travel awareness campaigns. So similar to what I did in Perth.

So try and encourage people to use the Tube or cycle-walk, Um, and within the same Transport, um, for London, there was a role that came up with the, it was called the, the Cycle– London cycle hire scheme, at that stage before–

Michele Ong

Yeah.

Karin Stark

We had to sponsor and it was called, um, Barclays Cycle Hire, and then everyone just called it Boris Bikes at that time. So that was a massive, um, cycle infras– public infrastructure program, 3000 bicycles in Central London, um, that would go into docking stations and people could use them to cycle, um, you know, we had stations every 300 metres, so it was a fantastic program to be involved in and it actually created huge behaviour change as well. Um–

Michele Ong

Yeah.

Karin Stark

But it was, it was revolutionising the way people travelled in, in London, which was very exciting.

What coordinating the program entails.

Michele Ong

Uh, yeah, it was amazing like hearing about all of the changes that were taking place just to make that happen. But what sort of things were involved in getting that sort of program running?

Karin Stark

It's a massive, massive, um, infrastructure program, public awareness program because Transport for London, which is a government organisation, had to work with all the boroughs within Central London to choose sites that would be, um, safe, and, you know, that would be highly, um, foot– would have high footfall, uh, for people to be able to, yeah, like visibility and safety and everything to be able to see these docking stations, cycle around, and know where to return them.

It was also the first time a scheme like this had been launched in, in the UK or in London in particular, so, it was a inc– it was trying to teach a whole new behaviour to people. And we weren't going to have, it's not like where you catch the Tubes, where there's people in the station, um, to help you with that, it's just these kind of public, you know, docking stations all over the place with bicycles.

Michele Ong

Stations, everywhere, yeah. You can't, can't place people at every one of these things just to tell people how it works.

Karin Stark

Yeah, exactly. So it was this massive marketing campaign, which is kind of what I was involved in. I particularly, um, led the delivery of a road show, which had, um, examples of what the bikes would look like, had information about how it worked, um, got people kind of razzed up and went to different festivals in London and think, um, we went to Trafalgar Square where there's high footfall.

Michele Ong

Yeah.

Karin Stark

Um, and I actually did also coordinate 600 volunteers for the first four days of launch, I think it was, um, to stand at the very popular spots that we thought people would be at to explain and help, um, our new kind of bike users to understand how to use the scheme. So, um, but after that, people were on their own pretty much. But yeah, it was, it was a really good program really.

The effect of bike helmet laws on cycle hire programs.

Michele Ong

Yeah. So over here, like we've got those issues with having like the legal issues with having to wear helmets when you're actually riding bikes.

So how– did you have issues with that kind of thing over there as well? Or was, was that an– was that a problem?

Karin Stark

Um, no. So that's also a very interesting question because when I worked in Perth, um, we– I was in sustainable travel and wearing helmets is compulsory, and I got pulled up by the cops a couple of times for not wearing a helmet when I went to work across the bridge, you know, the–

Michele Ong

Yeah.

Karin Stark

Vic Park to Perth.

Um, so when the helmet law in Perth was introduced, there was a reduction in 30% of people cycling to work–

Michele Ong

wow.

Karin Stark

For whatever reason that is. And the actual health benefit of people cycling outweighs the risk of, um, them having accidents. So that was actually for me, not a step in the right direction.

And I think children should wear helmets and, you know, Australia's very regulated, I guess in terms of, um, making sure that people are very conscious of health and safety.

So in the UK and places like Netherlands, they have massive amounts of cycling. Really high proportion of people cycle to work every day and they don't wear helmets 'cause it's not compulsory. Some do, some don't. It's up to them.

But because they have so many cyclists on the street, the number of accidents is actually lower per, per, per capita than it is in somewhere like Australia. So in the UK and London, there's no cycle helmet law. So–

Michele Ong

You didn't have that barrier of entry, barrier to entry for that. Yeah.

Karin Stark

Exactly. You could be a tourist, you could be coming out of a a meeting and needing to get back to your office, and you might see a cycle hire bike. You can just jump on and use it. Whereas in Australia, when they introduced these cycle hire schemes in Melbourne and Sydney, I'm not sure if there's any in Perth, but yeah, the barrier was people just had to be prepared and think ahead and go, I need to bring a helmet with me.

Michele Ong

Yeah.

Karin Stark

And you know, lots of people spoke about, well, why you leave helmets with the cycle hire bikes for people to use, but as soon as one of those helmets are dropped, it loses its integrity and yeah, hygiene and all those reasons, it doesn't work as well when you have a helmet law in place.

Michele Ong

Which is really unfortunate 'cause you know, you want them to use it, but you also want 'em to be safe.

Karin Stark

Yeah. Yeah, And, and I have spoken to people that have said they've fallen off their bikes and if they weren't wearing a helmet, they would've cracked their skulls, but instead it cracked the helmet. So it is, it is obviously safe to wear one, but it should be up to the person, I think.

Transitioning to renewables in agriculture.

Michele Ong

Yeah. So after the London hire– cycle hire scheme, you came back here and you moved out into rural New South Wales, became a farmer, and–

Karin Stark

Yeah.

Michele Ong

Now you're working on renewable energy resources for agriculture. How did that happen?

Karin Stark

Yeah, so that's right. So I went from busy living on Portobello Road, to living on a farm where our closest neighbour's about a 10 minute drive. So very isolated. But, um, you know, I, I think I've adapted relatively well to that and I quite like the bush we have around.

But–

Michele Ong

Yeah.

Introduction to solar in irrigation.

Karin Stark

So I guess I've been able, I've been very lucky to be able to combine my environmental science and, kind of, conservation background with, with agriculture.

And I was working, I've worked in lots of different roles since I've been in New South Wales. One of them was, um, The Office of Environment and Heritage, which is a New South Wales State Government organisation. And I was a regional coordinator looking at how do we increase generation of renewables in New South Wales.

And as part of that, um, my partner had mentioned that there was a guy coming into Narromine Town. It's about– Narromine's our closest town, it's about half an hour away and it's about two and a half thousand people, um, to talk about using solar to pump, 'cause we use a lot of diesel on our farm to pump water.

So this guy showed up, he'd met someone in Sydney, a farmer who said, oh yeah, you know, we need to cut our costs. He showed up expecting that it'd be four or five other farmers at the pub to talk about solar pumping, and there was 30 or 40.

Michele Ong

Oh, wow.

Karin Stark

So there's obviously a lot of interest in–

Michele Ong

Yeah.

Karin Stark

Cutting diesel fuel electricity costs and replacing it with something like solar. Particularly 'cause the cost of solar has come down so significantly over the last 10 years.

Michele Ong

Yeah, definitely.

Karin Stark

Yeah. So when I was with the government, um, organisation, I ran a few seminars inviting people from New South Wales farmers that were looking into the theory of solar pumping and if it could be done.

Um, and we attracted 50 to 60 farmers to places out Warren– like in these kind of very small towns. And to get a farmer to travel and give up a whole day's work is not an easy feat.

Michele Ong

Yeah, definitely. It's a massive ask.

Karin Stark

Yeah. So it showed that there was a real demand for that information, but not any systems for farmers to learn from.

So I guess from there it grew. So I kind of changed jobs and work for Landcare and things like that.

About their Narromine cotton farm.

Karin Stark

Um, and so on our farm, if I just explain a bit about what we do, we grow cotton and–

Michele Ong

Yeah. Yeah. Tell me.

Karin Stark

Yep. Two and a half thousand hectares, cotton's where we make our money. Um, we have a groundwater license and a river license. And the river license, you know, because of the drought, we, we haven't had any of the allocation over the last couple of years, two or three years, and barely anyone has. But we are very lucky to have groundwater. So that groundwater allows us to grow the cotton crop every year, which is what is most profitable for us to do with the water we have.

Because cotton can be quite controversial, I don't know if you wanna, if you have any questions about that, I can answer them as well, but um–

Michele Ong

Well, you can talk to it, yeah.

The controversy around cotton.

Karin Stark

Yeah. So I guess, well there's a view that cotton's a very thirsty plant and you know, that we shouldn't be using so much water to produce cotton. But cotton itself, um, it grows well in, in desert climates, but it's not the actual plant that a farmer grows is not the issue, it's the water license and the, and the river license.

Michele Ong

Yes.

Karin Stark

Who's using that water and how much have you got? And whether that's sustainable. So, and those issues are very complex, but our groundwater is highly monitored and highly managed. And New South Wales Water has got several test bores all around our valley, which look at how the groundwater is behaving in a, during the irrigation season and also during droughts.

So if they see the water table dropping too far, they, will, you know, stop irrigators from taking too much. Um, we're also very lucky that our groundwater's very deep. It's about 80 metres below the surface, and there's no connectivity between the Macquarie River, which is one of our closest rivers, and our groundwater.

So, you know, as the, as our groundwater gets pumped each year, it's not reducing, you know, 'cause there's no connectivity, it's not reducing the, the, the river water. And me being an environmentalist, you know, I've got, I, I see both views, you know, I, I wanna make sure there's enough water–

Michele Ong

Yeah.

Karin Stark

In rivers for the fish and for the wetlands.

So it is given, yeah, I've got a quite unique perspective, I suppose, on the water issues of farm. But, um,

Operating costs of diesel pumps.

Karin Stark

so we're spending, with the groundwater, we are spending about $300,000 on diesel, um, to pump that water license every year to grow cotton, and that was the highest operating cost on our farm.

Installation of the largest hybrid solar / diesel pump system in Australia.

Karin Stark

So, so once I was working, I think I'd left, um, Office of Environment and Heritage and was working for Landcare and we had a company called ReAqua come and speak to us, well, my partner and his dad about putting in a large scale solar, solar irrigation pump that would be a hybrid model with diesel to cut our diesel costs–

Michele Ong

Mm-hmm.

Karin Stark

to cut emissions, and that had a very strong business case.

So when you don't even look at the emissions it's a, it was a five year payback, putting in the 500kW–

Michele Ong

Yeah.

Karin Stark

of solar, um, not having to use diesel as much to fill out reservoirs.

Um, and you know, John and Rock decided to, Rock, being my father-in-law, decided to go with it. So we've got the largest solar diesel irrigation pump in Australia. Um, and we like, because we made up that category and named ourselves as the biggest, but we are the biggest.

But it's a real step change for–

Michele Ong

Just to be clear.

Karin Stark

I mean, no one else has tried to get it, but anyway. Um, real step change for, for large scale irrigation to be able to replace so much of that diesel with, with solar.

Reduction of carbon emissions.

Karin Stark

And one of the things that, you know, I feel very positive about is we've been able to reduce our CO2 emissions by about 500 tonnes a year, and that's one farmer doing that.

Michele Ong

That's incredible.

Karin Stark

Yeah. So you think, you know, there's a lot of–

Michele Ong

Wow.

Karin Stark

For me, I feel like there's a lot of noise around solar rooftop or doing this for houses and stuff, but that's one farmer reducing 500 tonnes of CO2 a year, which is about 40 households–

Michele Ong

Yeah.

Karin Stark

worth of energy. So, you gotta think if 10 more farmers do that in the next 10 years, that's heaps of, that's some significant reduction of emissions that we can achieve.

Michele Ong

Definitely. Especially because like agriculture is such a massive part of our industry, you know, in the entire country providing everything for export, domestic use.

Other farms setting up similar systems.

Michele Ong

So how many other farmers have been showing interest in establishing these? Have there been any other, um, farmers setting up arrays like yours?

Karin Stark

Uh, yes. So there's been a few smaller ones. When we launched the scheme in September 2018, we had about a hundred community members. Um, we had media there and some peak bodies and government representatives come along.

Founding the National Renewables in Agriculture Conference.

Karin Stark

So there have been, there's been a huge amount of interest, um, but actually not that many systems that I've heard of that are going in, particularly the size that we've got.

Which I suppose led me to my next venture, which is the, um, organising the National Renewables in Agriculture Conference.

Michele Ong

Yes.

Karin Stark

And um, I did that because, um, because obviously the interest from farmers in how does renewables cut our costs, build business resilience, and reduce emissions, but not enough examples where farmers can look over the fence and see what their neighbours are doing and, and see that it's working and do it, do it, do it themselves.

And I've learned that that's, living out here, farmers like to hear from other farmers they, they're quite independent people. They can be quite cynical. Um, so they want to hear from other farmers and what they've done and how it worked and what they learned.

So that was, I guess, a na– natural progression in my career to say, well, you know, let, let's do this massive conference, but not just about solar irrigating, but let's bring in battery storage, bioenergy on inner piggery, a carbon neutral winery in the valley and it went really well. So we got, um, 250 people to the inaugural event last year. Which was held in Wagga Wagga, um, really positive vibes. Um, the first speaker was from ANU, and he was talking about Australia as a renewable energy powerhouse.

And like you are saying, you know, agriculture exports, well, we could be exporting renewable energy because we have so much sunlight in this country. We have space, there's hydrogen. Yeah. So there's, it is quite exciting. What, what can, what farmers can get involved in, in, with their own property, but also they could be hosting, you know, these massive solar farms and selling energy overseas and we could be helping with the global emission target, really.

Michele Ong

That's great.

Interstate participants.

Michele Ong

So you're getting a lot of those interstate, um, interests coming in through for the conference as well?

Karin Stark

Oh yeah, definitely. Yep. So it's a national conference. We had speakers from every single other state except for the, except for Northern Territory.

Michele Ong

Yeah.

Karin Stark

Um, and we also had not a lot of farmers or businesses that were interested, um, traveling from different states to come to the conference.

So it's a pretty much the only, um, forum or event that I know of that people interested in the ag and renewable energy space can come together and meet and learn and show and share stories.

Leasing energy as a secondary income.

Michele Ong

Definitely. And it, it allows them to expand what they're doing, especially in times of like drought or flood and stuff like that. It's, you can still get all of the energy stuff going even with all the other stuff happening as well.

Karin Stark

Exactly. So that's a good point. So it's one that I try and make a lot, which is when farmers, particularly when they host wind turbines, for example–

Michele Ong

Mm-hmm.

Karin Stark

or when they host a solar farm on part of their property, that's giving them a secondary income that during a drought when they might not have– if they're dry land farmers or they're grazers, they have cattle, sheep, they don't get much of an income at all from their primary production.

So that's why having that buffer of this leasing your land and getting money for that, um, from the solar developer or the wind turbines, you can get up to $18,000 per turbine, for example, that is really helping some farmers I've spoken to, to, um, be able to do other things with their business or expand or not have that stress, that they will have no income for a year.

Yeah. So that is another good point.

The controversy behind the use of ag land.

Michele Ong

That's amazing. Like it's, it's such a great area for them to go into because of how much space that they've got in general for all the other work that they normally do.

Karin Stark

Yeah, exactly. That's the way I see it. I mean, there has, there is, it is a little bit controversial at the moment about, um–

Michele Ong

It's always controversial.

Karin Stark

ag land.

Well, when I first started with government, the controversy, the controversy was around wind turbines and the health impacts of the–

Michele Ong

Yes.

Karin Stark

turbines or whatever. But which ended up, you know, there was not no, no basis to that, but there was no opposition to solar farms. But there weren't many large scale solar farms when I was working for the government, you know, five years ago.

But now we have these three renewable energy zones for New South Wales, um, that had been, um, designated to, you know, have these massive 3000 megawatt, um, solar plants, or wind or pumped hydro. And there have been some opponents that have talked about, well, that high value agricultural land shouldn't be converted for solar and then be locked up for 30 years.

Agrivoltaics.

Karin Stark

So, while I think that is a genuine concern, I think it can be worked around because there are things like agrivoltaics, which is happening in Japan, in Austria and Italy, and they grow crops under the solar panels.

Michele Ong

Mm-hmm.

Karin Stark

There's also I read recently about transparent solar panels which allow the light through so that it actually can help with the production of crops as well.

So you can actually– solar and agriculture, particularly grazing, which is happening already —lots of sheep keeping the weeds down under the solar panels— it can coexist in a really, um, positive manner and it's a win-win situation. It doesn't have to be one or the other like you have solar farm then you can't farm anymore.

So I guess I see that as something that we, Australia, probably needs to move a bit more into, um, that other countries have done already, but we've had so much space in the past, we didn't need to worry about that, you know, one or the other land conflict issue.

Other agriculture businesses taking up renewables.

Michele Ong

So given that only a few of the smaller farms have been picking up the solar panels, have any of the other industries, like the pig farmers and the wineries been in– showing any interest in renewable alternatives?

Karin Stark

Yep. So the dairy industry, um, has been, have been leading, I suppose, in terms of solar use for their, for their dairy sheds and um, keeping their milking vats cool. And, and also there's quite a few wineries that because they often market their product direct at the farm or gate or to consumers, they want to be also more, um, be seen as being more environmentally friendly and carbon neutral.

And a lot of the wine regions need the cooler weather, like in the Hunter, and the wine industry is being highly affected by climate change. So they see a need to, to be reducing their emissions and using, you know, so– solar or renewables and other ways of cutting emissions so that, because they're being directly impacted now, really.

Michele Ong

Yes.

Karin Stark

As a lot of other agricultural sectors, but the wine industry in particular.

What is involved in leasing land for energy production.

Michele Ong

That's brilliant. So with the leasing of the land for solar panels and wind turbines. Uh, I assume that, like none of the farmers have to actually do anything with that, so it'll be external contractors coming in to manage and maintain all of those things for them, they just need to provide the land and that's all?

Karin Stark

Yep. That, that's correct. They might have some obligations in terms of keeping the weeds down. It just depends on the contract between the landholder and the solar proponent.

And, and I guess that's the type of thing New South Wales farmers have an excellent guide out for landholders that wanna host. Yeah 'cause there's a lot to understand in terms of impact with cons– when construction and new roads that might be built for wind turbines or you know, what are the contractual, um, things you need to look out for.

But generally, yeah, once they've leased the land, they can either graze their sheep if that's something that's been negotiated and continue to access that land, otherwise, I believe they probably just might need to keep the weeds down and their stock out of, out of it if it's, if it's cattle because they can be quite damaging to the infrastructure.

Michele Ong

Yes, of course.

About Reaqua and solar irrigation.

Michele Ong

With ReAqua, 'cause you're working with them as well. Aside from raising awareness what other kind of roles do they have in getting their farmers on board with adding this infrastructure in?

Karin Stark

Yep. So ReAqua, um, are– their main bread and butter would be livestock solar pumps. So it's replacing either diesel or the old windmills that you see that pump water up to livestock, um, troughs around Australia, and it's replacing with solar because there's very low maintenance needs, you don't need to go up there and fill up diesel all the time.

Um, so they've been very successful with that. They sell a product called LORENTZ, which is a German engineered product, but they've got a factory in Beijing. Um, but obviously they, they're getting into the large scale solar irrigation market as well.

And they've done a orange orchard in Gunnedah, I think it was, um, or near Tamworth, where instead of connecting to the grid for this new orchard, um, by going solar, they were cash positive from the beginning 'cause it would've cost them over I think 50 to 90,000 to have a new grid connection and then obviously there's the cost of electricity every, every year for, for irrigating the, um, orchard plants. But by going solar, and, pretty much off grid, they've already saved, um, that ongoing cost plus the connection fees and everything else. So yeah, so that's pretty much what they're doing.

And, you know, I've helped ReAqua with things like working with CSIRO to look at solar forecasting technology, where they have an eye, like a 360 degree eye that, um, can, can predict every, I think five minutes exactly where the clouds are going to be and when it's going to cover a solar array, and then you, can then use that intelligence to, to make better decisions on when to use a diesel generator or turn it on now and start warming it up because it's gonna be a massive cloud event–

Michele Ong

Wow.

Karin Stark

in 15 minutes, or don't turn it on, it's only a quick one. Yeah, it's quite, it was quite an interesting project.

Michele Ong

That's incredible. There's so much technology involved in just getting, you know, that kind of analytics going, gosh.

What's next for the conference.

Michele Ong

So you've had to delay the conference for this year because of all the quarantine, coronavirus stuff. What's the, what's the next plan or what's the next stage for the conference?

Karin Stark

Yep. So, um, yeah, obviously it wasn't a great, great year to start a conference business.

Michele Ong

Yeah.

Karin Stark

So that's, been postponed until May the 19th next year in Dubbo.

Michele Ong

Mm-hmm.

Sample of the speakers for the next event.

Karin Stark

And we've got quite a few farmers lined up, some really interesting ones as well, that um, one of them who is, is using the bio gas from their piggery as well, which is a bit similar to the one last year, but she's selling energy back into the grid.

Yeah. So that, I find that type of stuff, because it's using a waste product to produce energy to run your farm. You know, it's that circular loop that you want to be, um, if you wanna be sustainable, that's kind of the way to go. Um–

Michele Ong

That's fantastic.

Karin Stark

Yeah. Got– anyway. I've got lots of, I'm trying to think of the other speakers.

Oh, I've got, got a speaker on, um, hydrogen energy and how in the future it might be a fantastic way for farmers who have got solar and water to produce energy, store it and power their, their farm vehicles with it. And we're actually looking at that with our large scale solar system as well at the moment.

So that's, yeah, lots of fantastic speakers. Even electric utes. We've got a speaker that's gonna come and talk about an electric ute that you might be able to power with your solar panels. So yeah, starting to– the message is getting out there.

Michele Ong

That's cool, like just being able to get them completely off the grid. That's amazing.

That's fantastic news.

Sharing of new developments in alternative energy solutions.

Karin Stark

Yeah, it's, there's lots of, lots of new research and fantastic innovative leaders out there in the community, farmers doing fantastic things. It's just a matter of getting them together at something like my conference and sharing those stories, allowing other farmers to ask questions and make connections with either businesses that I might have at the conference, which are, um, part of the expo, and I've tried to look at credible businesses because that is a massive barrier as well to farmers investing in renewables is a lack of trust in suppliers.

And you can't blame them because some of them get four or five solar, in– um, installers calling them saying, oh yeah, we'd love to come and put solar on your, on your shed. But there's, there needs to be an understanding of ag and the operations around ag and the patterns of energy use, which is very different to a business in town or a household.

Michele Ong

Or residential. Definitely.

Karin Stark

Yeah. So therefore, even if they're a great business, a great solar installer, they might not have that ag understanding.

So there needs to be smarter lines with how we use renewables within a agricultural setting. And, um, some of those consultants or businesses come to my conference as part of the expo so farmers can speak to them on the day about what opportunities there are.

Michele Ong

That's, that's brilliant. So at least that way, you're gonna be able to get those people who are in the commercial, residential solar space, learning a bit more about how they can help the agricultural community.

Karin Stark

Yeah. Yeah.

Support for agricultural renewables in other Australian states.

Michele Ong

So I, you've, there's so much support in New South Wales and a lot of infrastructure for this. Um, is that spreading to the other states as well?

Karin Stark

Um, well, Queensland and Victoria have had, um, ag energy farm audits, um, for the last few years that New South Wales actually don't have that yet, but those help a farmer to identify where they're using energy, where they can save energy via, you know, energy efficiency and also where renewables might be a good solution.

Um, and once that farmer has that information, it really helps them, I suppose, know that they've got a credible independent report that they can make decisions based on data and, um, and scientific evidence rather than a solar installer coming saying, I can cut your costs, and put, you know, solar panels on your paddock or whatever.

Um, yeah. But yeah, so there are things, a lot of things happening in other states as well.

AgZero2030.

Karin Stark

So there's a group in WA called AgZero2030, and that's a group of farmers that have come together to try and reduce their, you know, be, be, um, carbon neutral by 2030. Um, and they're looking at things like renewal as well as a way to achieve that.

Michele Ong

Hopefully they'll keep growing then now that, well, once people can start being a little bit more mobile to actually get to these conferences.

Karin Stark

That's, yeah, that's the hope.

The impracticality of remote conferences for regional areas.

Karin Stark

A few of

Michele Ong

the other, um, people I've spoken to, they've been taking their conferences online, but clearly with our tech issues, that's probably not gonna be viable for a lot of people at the moment.

Karin Stark

Yeah. A few people in my committee, so I've got on my conference committee, I've got, um, lots of great representatives. Um, and a couple of them said, oh, why don't you do an online, you know, conference. I said, you know, I can barely do a Zoom call without interruption, let alone organise a whole conference with speakers. And farmers don't have the best, most reliable internet, so it just isn't going to work.

Michele Ong

No they don't. Yeah.

Karin Stark

Farmers are very about face-to-face interactions as well.

Michele Ong

Of course.

Karin Stark

So, um, yeah, I'd rather–

Michele Ong

It's about building trust and rapport.

Karin Stark

Yeah, exactly.

Moving towards a renewables led recovery.

Karin Stark

Yeah.

Michele Ong

And it's good to hear about all the ways that these technologies can help our farmers normally, as well as when they need it the most.

Karin Stark

Yeah, exactly. And there's, there's, you know, a really big push now to have a renewables led recovery after COVID, because, you know, we can create 50,000 jobs just by, um, supporting the new renewables industry and giving that kind of, um, certainty to investors that Australia is, is wanting to push on with renewables rather than fossil fuels.

And a lot of the coal powered fire stations are retiring in 20 to 30 years, so it's not really the time to be invested in fossil fuel technologies or you know, even gas, really. Dare I say it?

Michele Ong

No, it's not.

Okay. Well, uh, 'cause you have to get going soon. We'll get onto, there were a few extra questions that I'd like to ask you, which are unrelated to what you do for work.

Bonus Question 1: What hobby or interest do you have that is most unrelated to your field of work?

Michele Ong

Uh, so what hobby or interest do you have that's most unrelated to what you do?

Karin Stark

Probably, um, my art, I'd say, um, my dad, as you'd know, is a very, um, beautiful artist. He's, you know, just very skilled and talented in that stuff. So I suppose from learning from him a little bit, when I was a child, I loved to paint with oils and watercolours.

I'd say that would be my creative out– outlet, I suppose in a way. Um, I don't do a lot of it because I've got a 6-year-old daughter and trying to work and do that and help a bit on the farm, um, it doesn't leave much time. But um, that would be, once I do get a lot of time, it would be something I'd like to spend a lot more time doing.

Michele Ong

So you've been doing, like, you've been doing oils like just recently or?

Karin Stark

Yeah. I could show you a few, but.

Michele Ong

Yeah, we don't have to do it now.

Karin Stark

Want me to grab–

Michele Ong

No, you don't have to do it now.

Karin Stark

Okay. Yeah. Anyway, so yeah, that's probably my hobby. That's most unrelated to my work.

Michele Ong

A lot of the women in our family seem to love the art side as well. Very artistic.

Karin Stark

Do you do art?

Michele Ong

Mostly the girls. Yeah. So used to do quite lot of art, um, drawing, bit of watercolours, not terribly good and haven't done it in ages, but it's, you know, it's just something that I've always done. But of course it wasn't a, it wasn't a career that was actually, we're gonna go anywhere, and make me money. So it became a hobby.

Bonus Question 2: Which childhood book holds the strongest memories for you?

Michele Ong

And, uh, which childhood book holds the strongest memories for you?

Karin Stark

Um, there's a really new age hippie one that my dad read to us a lot called The Magical Rainbow Man. And I read it to my daughter, and my sister reads it to her sons. But I love that book because firstly, back then, my dad would've got it from one of those shops that sell all those crystals and have incense burning.

Um, you know, it had the three children that are talking to this magical rainbow man that's in the sky, they're of the three, three different ethnic– ethnicities. So there's a child of colour, there's an Asian one, and then there's like a redheaded girl. So I just thought, when I look at it now, I didn't notice it as a child, but when I look at it now, I just think, oh, that's beautiful that they, you know, used, uh, really representative, you know, mix of children, you know, all being friends and, and being culturally diverse.

But, um, it's, I guess it's special because it talks about the different colours in the rainbow and all– it's just really positive and, um, talks about how important love is and how you have to show love when this, you know, when the sky's darkest, because that's when you need it the most, like symbolically, but, um. Yeah, that, that I'd say that book has probably meant the most and that I, that I love, you know, my partner rolls his eyes when I get it out. Bit too hippy. Um, I really love it.

Michele Ong

Oh, it's beautiful that both you and your sister, like read it to your children now as well, that it's just carried forward to next generation.

Karin Stark

Yeah, that, yeah, and I, I–

Michele Ong

That's really sweet.

Karin Stark

My dad actually, yeah, my dad gave my sister a copy of the original. Um, and then I got annoyed saying, well, how come she got the original.

So he went and bought– tried to find her online even though it was out of print and managed to find a very expensive copy. But anyway, very sweet. But I really wanted it to read to my, to my, to Noa as well. So we should have just kept it at your house and then we could read it to our kids every time we came, but anyway.

Michele Ong

That's okay. It's good that it's something that you can share as well.

Bonus Question 3: What advice you would give someone who wants to do what you do? Or what advice should they ignore?

Michele Ong

And last one before we wrap up, what advice would you give someone who wants to, you know, get into what you do, which is a little bit broad because you've had a few different jobs and moved on a little bit.

Karin Stark

I think, you know, doing that volunteer work I did when I was at university got me a foot in the door for my first career job.

And I think there's nothing like, um, getting your face known and understanding who's who in the industry by volunteering while– while you're at university. Um, and also I think being open, and a lot of the jobs I've had have been, people have notified me that, um, are in my network, like I don't hear about these jobs being advertised.

If I'm looking for one and people go, oh, there's one, you know, it's a networks job here, or there's an environmental thing there. So I think having a very strong network and keeping in touch with people that you get along well with in past jobs, I've done that a lot. Not necessarily for my career, but just because I like them or my old bosses, I really like them.

Michele Ong

Yeah.

Karin Stark

Um, so that's really helped with, I guess, you know, them hearing of things and then you might then be told about them and have the opportunity to go for them. But I think generally being quite open to what comes your way.

So I, when I first left university, I didn't wanna work in sustainable transport. Like I said, I wanted to do nature conservation, or you know, reveg or, animal stuff, but working in that sustainable transport, like I ended up really loving it because it's about, um, psych, the psychology of people and how do you get them to change behaviour and, you know, how do we, um, create change by setting people up, um, with others that wanna create change or by addressing their barriers with different incentives or information or whatever it might be. So I suppose that, uh, that those skills that I learned are all transferable to other, other jobs that I had and that I went to. But um, yeah, I'd say that's probably my advice.

Michele Ong

Definitely. Anything that they shouldn't listen to?

Karin Stark

Yeah. Well, when I first, um, wanted to go into university and study, you know, bi– biological sciences or ended up doing environmental science, my mum. um, being Asian as well didn't help, but she said there's no jobs in the environment. There's no jobs in the environment. Don't do it. There's no jobs in the environment.

But, and at that time, the environment wasn't high on the agenda in government policy or in the media, or there weren't that many, you know, not-for-profits that worked on this area. So there probably wasn't as many jobs as there are now. But because, um, I am passionate about it, I did, you know, follow what I wanted to, what I felt I wanted to do with my life. And that's worked out really well for me really in the end.

Michele Ong

Yeah.

Karin Stark

So, um, if anyone tells you there's no jobs in it,

Michele Ong

You don't know.

Karin Stark

Do your, do your research, and believe in yourself.

Michele Ong

Oh, that's a good one. Yeah, definitely. That's, that's also a running theme that we've been having as well. Like, you don't know where you're gonna end up. Just keep your options open and a lot of jobs that we have now didn't exist then, so, you never know if something new in the industry that you're interested in is going to make a job for you and you'll find that space.

Karin Stark

Yeah. Yeah. That's very true. Yeah. There definitely weren't the number of jobs and the variety for environmental science people like me when I left uni at all. So yeah, but there, there definitely are now.

Michele Ong

Yeah. Cool. That's good advice. All right. Well, we'll let you get going.

Thank you so much for this. This has been really fascinating and learning about all the ways that renewables can be used in agriculture. It's such a massive industry that's just going to keep growing.

Karin Stark

I hope so. And thank you so much for having me on.

Michele Ong

Awesome. This has been great.

Karin Stark

Very Good. Yeah.

Michele Ong

Yeah. So you are interesting.

Karin Stark

I dunno about that. That's very nice. You might think so 'cause you're family, but thank you. Other people... But anyway, thank you very much.

Michele Ong

That's okay. Thanks.

With climate change having such a great impact on agriculture, not to mention everywhere else, it's fascinating to see the way that renewable energy is being utilised in the sector, not only to cut cost and carbon emissions, but in some cases to also close the loop.

To learn more about what Karin and I discussed on this show or to connect with us, please visit the STEAM Powered website at steampoweredshow.com. You can also reach out to Karin on Twitter at @karinstark79, as well at her conference website, which I'll include in the show notes.

If you enjoyed this conversation, please let me know. Subscribe to this channel, leave a comment below, and share this with your geeky and geek-curious friends. Thanks for watching.