Michele Ong

Not everyone has that pivotal moment where they realise what they want to do with their life. And that's okay. The important thing is to be open to ideas and opportunities, even if they may lead you in a different direction. Rumee Singh is the CEO and Co-Founder of Rahat, and a tech entrepreneur. Join us as Rumee shares the full-circle journey that brought her home, and building solutions that make an impact in her community.

I'm Michele Ong, and this is STEAM Powered

So good afternoon Rumee, thank you so much for joining me on STEAM Powered. I'm really looking forward to speaking with you about your journey.

Rumee Singh

Thank you, Michele. I'm really excited about the opportunity. So thank you for inviting me and having the interest to learn more about what I do and my journey.

Michele Ong

Yeah, absolutely. We had such an amazing chat at SXSW last year, and I'm just looking forward to picking up where we left off.

Following the familial STEM path.

Michele Ong

So you started your journey in electronic engineering and now you're working on impact programs. But I'd love to know what started you in electronic engineering and, you know, kind of motivate you to pursue it.

Rumee Singh

So, I was born and raised in Nepal and, coming from a South Asian country and a middle class background where, you know, parents are really huge into education and if you're educated and if you have a career in science you can do anything. So that's sort of like the mindset that I grew up in.

My parents are highly educated. My dad's an aeronautical engineer, my mom's a botanist. So we sort of came from a very education heavy perspective and a very science heavy perspective. And I don't know if I should say fortunately or unfortunately, it's more like the path was cut out and, I wasn't really happy with the path and I've always been like a rebel and I had this passion for writing and communication and really really communicating ideas and I love that.

But I mean, I was a very good student and so it was like, okay, so you're going to be an engineer or a doctor. So it's very common, I think, in the South Asian family thatif you're good, it's going to be science. So,at that time, and also given the opportunities that were available, like the market demand, the point was like, okay,because I'm good at it, let's just do this.

So, I sort of went through that path and I think I trusted my parents' instinct. And again, it's a very South Asian culture. So the cultural influences do come in. Andmy sister is an architect, my brother is a computer engineer. So I was like, okay, she's also going to be an engineer. So I started my engineering journey and I did my education, but there was always this passion for communication.

And, you know, I loved the problem-solving part, the critical thinking, and even in college, like, I would be the one who would be writing reports and presenting and sharing the ideas, and I was always in that bucket where I wanted to really share what I was doing, and I was looking at the core of what we've built and really getting people to understand what we are doing.

So that path was always there for me.

The concern that it felt 'wrong' to not know your direction in life.

Rumee Singh

And, I think at some point where I was like, okay, I had a degree, I was interning in a software company, I was working on that. But my pull was always towards, um, comms and journalism. So I was always like trying to figure out what I wanted to do.

I did not know if engineering was for me or comms was for me. And, you know, as an 18 year old or a 20 year old, I felt that was so wrong. And, you know, I thought that was like the worst thing. I felt like, Oh my God, I'm such a weird person. I don't know what I want to be in life.

But when I look back, I feel so good about the fact that I was exploring and I had this open mind. And I feel like impact is my focus, but I want to have an open mind and I don't want to lock it to like, okay, this is the thing that I do. And this is what my life is going to be.

The pivot to journalism and communications.

Rumee Singh

So I went to Boston for a Master's degree in journalism. And I was in the US for 13 years. I went into corporate communications, had a whole shift andinterestingly, you know, like earlier when I was in Nepal, like, because I was doing journalism, I find it so stupid now.

I'm sorry for the wording, but you know, I feel like I was kind of ashamed of sharing my background as like, okay, I'm an engineer and I moved into this. I felt like that would really holds me back. But throughout my journey, that really helped me create a niche, you know? Like my first job in the US they were like, Oh my God, she's got this critical thinking, you really don't get someone who's got like the best of both worlds kind of thing. So that helped me really stand out.

And I was working in a corporate company in a food and beverage industry in the US and I remember likethe manager of my boss who hired me, she was this amazing woman, she was so excited with the fact that I came in with this science/engineering background and I could bring that in with the comms background.

She really made me feel like this is such an amazing asset. AndI was interning for Nova and finding the science angle. So all of the things that I was looking at was like a mix of both worlds for me.

The journey home and connecting with community.

Rumee Singh

Butmy impact journey though, it started once I moved back to Nepal and I think as an immigrant in a developed country, you've always sort of look back to, you know, a country like Nepal, where there are not a lot of opportunities. There are so many problems and you feel like you can give back so much to the community.

So there was always this mindset that, you know, the skills I had learned, the things that I've seen, I could go back and I could really give back to my community. And it was always like the impact piece was huge becauseyou've seen people struggling, you've seen marginalised populations, even likecoming from a fairly good, middle class background, there were basic struggles like power cuts at one point for like 18 hours a day.

And then you sort of build that thankfulness for things that you can take for granted in a developed country. Like, taking a hot shower and having power and access to internet and like things like that. And I wanted to sort of see how I can give back to my community.

So, after 13 years and again, it was like, the process was long. So, you know, life happened. I had kids and had family and my husband is also from Nepal. So we were both like, you know, maybe we can start the move and see if we can go back to Nepal at some point. And I feel like it's not just us, but a lot of my friends, everybody was sort of in that boat to see 'where do we go', right?

And it took us about five years to really get that move going, I think, from the point where we started thinking about it. So I was in uh, PepsiCo in New York in the global comms team and,you know, worked with my manager then to find an opportunity in the Middle East, so I was in Dubai for a year.

And when it was time for me to go back to New York, I felt like that was the time for me to decide, like a make or break moment for me, to see if we can go back. And I think I was fortunate enough personally, professionally, financially, even with the family piece, I felt this was the time that I could really go back with my husband and my young kids and also to be able to be with family back home.

So, what now? Deciding what comes next.

Rumee Singh

So we made the jump, got to Nepal and it was again, like that point of figuring out what do I do, right? So I didn't have a big plan of, like, what I wanted to do. So my husband is into tech and, you know, he was like, okay, I'm going to work on this. He had this whole thing laid out. And for me, I was like, I really don't know what I wanted to do.

And I felt like I was pushed back, you know, again, 10 years, not having a proper directionand I actually did an exercise of like, okay, what are my skills? What makes me happy? AndI sat down with a friend of mine and I was doing like a whole mind-mapping to see what I wanted to be before I got into this quarter-life or mid-life kind of crisis situation.

A reminder of what has always been important to her.

Rumee Singh

And what really stood out to me was going back home to me meant impact. And it's so funny, Michele I was actually talking to my mom two weeks ago. And she was like, just sharing something about, you know, as kids, because I loved writing, and she was like, You wrote an essay or something about what you wanted to be in life, and all of the other kids were writing specific things. And I had no idea, and I still don't remember anything about that, but she said, you know, the teacher had said this is an amazing write up, and I had written that, I don't know what I wanted to be, but I wanted to be in the impact space, and I wanted to give back to my community.

And this was probably when I was, I don't know, 12, 13, or so. And I have no recollection of it. And I was kind of like, wow, it's kind of like,

Michele Ong

Full circle.

Rumee Singh

Yeah, it was a full circle. It was like a subconscious mind. And, you know, the impact piece is near and dear to me.

Hamro Lifebank and the digital transformation of blood management.

Rumee Singh

And I wanted to do something that can help the community. So the first thing I started when I came back was a not-for-profit called Hamro Lifebank. And basically as I was trying to figure out what I want to do in an impact space, what I realised and found out in Nepal is like there's a lot of stress when it comes to managing blood, right?

So if you are having a surgery or if you're having a childbirth situation, the patient themselves or the patient's family are responsible for finding and managing blood. So, I was kind of taken aback by that because I had my kids in the US and I never had that issue and I felt that was so unfair, especially as a woman and, one of my friends who's a gynecologist, she had shared that she actually lost a patient because the blood was not managed in time and there was a big loss. So I really wanted to see what the issue was and saw that there's no data management, no information management and you really don't have an inventory in the blood bank, like a proper inventory,and everything is manual.

So I sort of took that as a big thing that I was very passionate about and took it from a very technology and comms angle again, given the background and how we could solve that. So, youknow, it was like not rocket science, but basically a digital transformation of like the blood banking services, andworking with the blood banks, and then also not only that, like setting up a hotline at the other end, so we now have like a 24/7 hotline that the nonprofit runs. And we have a database-driven system where we are tracking the donor database and if blood banks have blood, then we send folks to that.

So that was the impact piece that's really what I started with.

Michele Ong

That's amazing. And it's also your journey of coming from that technical background because you felt that that's the push that you had. And a lot of people, you know, I kind of relate to that as well. Asian backgrounds, you have a lot of pressures around where you need to go academically or in terms of your path, career, and life.

Rumee Singh

And it's difficult because you're making these choices when you're 18, when you're 17, and you don't know what you want to do yet. You don't have the experience. You don't have enough worldly knowledge to understand who you want to be and what you want to be able to do and where you want to make a difference. So for you to be able to-- and it is a very brave thing for a lot of people. You've completed your degree in one industry and you just go, actually, I'm going to pursue this alternative. And that would have been such a massive change, such a big decision to have to come to at that young age. But, you know, clearly it's something that you've been passionate about and you've been driven down that path and it's okay to listen to what it is that you've intuited as something that you really feel is valuable to you. So yeah, it's such a great part of the journey for a lot of people where it's okay not to know.Yeah, Michele. And like I don't wanna get that hung up on the Asian background, but there is a lot of pressure and you know it, right? Like the academic performance is a lot of pressure. AndI know my parents were definitely looking out for me because they were like, if you have a science background, you know, you can make it out in the world, you could have a good job, you can earn money and I'm sure they were not even thinking of the US or anything else at that point, with Nepal as well, right?

There was not much, like, what is the market demand, right? Now I have kids and I'm like, Oh yes, I would love that too, for them to go do science and tech, so it's,

Michele Ong

It's a pragmatic choice when you think about it.

Rumee Singh

And I'm so thankful, now, because I'm in the tech space, as you said, like a full circle. You know, I am working, as a woman in tech andI'm not coding literally, but I have that mindset and I feel strongly that girls in tech and women in tech is so important.

And I'm so happy to be able to promote that even within our company here. And I'm always pushing my team and like,let's get in more women, let's build that in. And,I just feel like it's worked out really well for me. And, yeah, I'm, happy now, like in retrospect, before I was like, oh my God, we know what did I do?

But it's as you said, like it fits in, and you, you are who you are because of the experience and what you've learned and you pave your path accordingly. I just feel like, you know, there's not anything that's a huge mess of a wrong move that you did, you know.

Michele Ong

Exactly. It all feeds into it. And even with your journey to start Hamro Bank as well, it's about your background, your experiences, and you're bringing that in to this entire new enterprise and saying, this is a problem and it's affecting a vulnerable group of people, and it could be better. And using your experience in what you've been doing, your technological, your analytical background to be able to try and create a solution for it.

And it's so important as well, because we take that for granted in other countries where, you know, you've got blood banks, you don't have to worry about access to blood if you have surgeries. It just happens. It's all transparent. And that's what makes innovations work, when they're transparent, when you don't know that they're there and they just work.

So, being able to come back and see, actually, this is not transparent at all. This is actually quite problematic. And,we do absolutely take the care that we can receive medically for granted, and yeah, the perspective just makes such a difference.

Rumsan, and leveraging technology for social impact.

Michele Ong

So moving on from, one impact project, you also founded Rumsan, which works on other technological innovations for vulnerable communities. So what made you go all in into that space?

Rumee Singh

I guess, again, on the impact line for me, you know, is technology and innovation can support vulnerable populations. So that has been my driving force and finding that path as a social enterprise, right? So being able to sustain as well and still being able to make impact. Which is very difficult. And I won't lie, there's a lot of pressure as well. So I think we're looking at how technology can support. And I think in the midst of COVID as well, like one of the things that really stood out was Nepal, again, is a dependent country.

And because of the geographical challenges we have with the mountains, floodings, and now the glacial floodings with climate change, and you know, earthquakes, and also because of the socioeconomic status of the country as well, like, there's a lot of, international and donor aid that comes in.

Exploring blockchain as a tool

Rumee Singh

So now, my husband is in the tech space and he's been working into the blockchain space as well. So that's kind of where we looked. I was like, how can we work with the technology to help and make an impact. And a novel technology like blockchain, which is again, there's a lot of, questions and a lot of like, Oh, is it something that's looking for a problem? So a lot of things have come up and, you know, I was sort of having these conversations with my husband as well.

Rahat, to support transparency in tracking humanitarian aid and reaching the underbanked.

Rumee Singh

So we sort of decided to sort of combine forces and use his tech knowledge and my passion for impact and my background to see how we can build that on that aspect. So we started a solution called Rahat which is a financial access platform. Rumsan is sort of like the legal entity.

We started more as a cash and voucher assistance platform. So basically for like managing and tracking humanitarian aid. So it brings in accountability and transparency and not just that, I think being able to reach the underbanked and the unbanked folks. So, you know, the aid reaches the ones who need it the most.

We obviously did a lot of research and it was also driven by a couple of other organisations or areas who were working in the same space. So we've had a lot of support like feedback coming in from these organisations who had worked in this area and we were looking at how we can make this not just this proprietary solution for one organisation, but how do we support more um, areas and more organisations. So we started off with that.

And, I was very, very, intrigued and excited with the fact that this would be supporting marginalised communities. So that was definitely front and centre. And then we got selected as one of the eight companies globally from UNICEF Innovation Fund.

So that was a huge boost for us and, you know, that really helped us expand the prototype that we built and we got access to these amazing mentors, so always thankful for that, and got that jump from a development sector.

The challenges of pioneering with new technology and the value of industry support.

Rumee Singh

And to add to that because blockchain is so new and then you know blockchain is obviously very connected with crypto and, unfortunately crypto is illegal in Nepal and there's a lot of issues and regulations surrounding that.

And I mean, I'm completely in for blockchain. I understand the value and I know it's going to probably take years, like, how the internet or the telephone took years for the adoption piece, and maybe we are still struggling and just scratching the surface of it. But I strongly believe that that is the future, and it can, in some form, it is going to be amazing, like it's the next internet, right? So from a revolution standpoint, we're now talking about Open Money and all of these pieces.

So it was very difficult for uscoming in as a blockchain company. For them it's sort of like, okay, are you guys legal? And so we had a lot of struggle getting people on-boarded to make them understand we're not touching crypto, but we're working on the private ecosystem and the blockchain aspect, we are working within the realms of the regulations.

But having that, support from a credible organisation, like the UNICEF Innovation Fund has given us that leg up to be like, okay, these guys already backed by them.

Michele Ong

It supports the legitimacy of the technology.

Rumee Singh

We were definitely looking for the legitimacy. So that's really helped.

But beyond the legitimacy, I think, as a new startup, that really helped us build that pathway.

Anticipatory Action (AA) in disaster response.

Rumee Singh

And we've now piloted with UNICEF Nepal, and it's sort of like now has a snowball effect. And we are currently working-- we got a grant from the GSMA Innovation Fund, which is the global mobile network, which is huge. And we are currently working with the Danish Red Cross here in Nepal. And in Anticipatory Action aspect now, so which is basically even before the onset of a climate disaster, like, based on, you know, parametric data-- let me try to explain.

So, if a flooding is going to happen in like, a 10.8 metres of the river level, they're predicting and anticipating that the flooding will happen. So instead of like, post-disaster response, how do we respond in anticipation? So the Danish Red Cross has done a lot of work in that and coming in as a technology company, we're trying to streamline their workflow and then helping themfast-track their lead time so they can react faster.

So we are working in that space currently. And,I think for this monsoon, we'd be supporting Danish Red Cross support5,000 plus households.

Direct financial access support and building community resilience.

Rumee Singh

And so we've been in that space where we're supporting organisations as a technology provider, but beyond that as well, like,we've really expanded our system, as like a financial access platform. So we're looking into immediate access to aid, so supporting humanitarian organisations, streamline their efforts and be able to support with cash and voucher assistance and commodity assistance faster.

We're also looking at building financial resilience. So we're looking into the parametric insurance space as well, which is on a more exploratory phase for us. But that's something very exciting for us as well.

Supporting digital and financial literacy in underserved populations to reduce the digital divide.

Rumee Singh

And then there's this third pillar that we work on, which is the digital and financial literacy piece. Which has actually been really interesting and huge because, what we've also realised as we're working with thelow-income households and underserved populations is that there's a huge opportunity divide, right?

Because of lack of access to technology, lack of access to Internet. And because of that, the wealth gap that's just widening and widening because the haves versus the have nots, right? So we have access to AI, and ChatGPT, andthere's so many economic opportunities, while the low income households of folks who don't have access are missing out on some of these opportunities.

So we've been looking into how we can work on that aspect with digital and financial literacy. We sort of tie it with the projects that we're working on, and thenwe now have access to about 800 plus communities here in Nepal. Andit's still a slow process. But, to see, is it online, is it offline, what kind of workshops that we can give to the beneficiaries themselves or to community folks who can gain from that and take that out and support the beneficiaries. So we were working on that to see how we can bridge that access divide.

Technology is just a tool. The end-user doesn't and shouldn't have to know how their problem is solved.

Michele Ong

And yeah. That's such an incredible thing to do, because I was going to say, because it's such a tech-first innovation and solution that you're providing, if you are working with the vulnerable communities, which are going to be low socioeconomic and have access or geographic limitations, like the digital divide, the digital poverty, the financial literacy aspect is so important to the work that you do.

In terms of blockchain, did you consider a non-web3 solution for accessibility, I suppose, because of the digital divide?

Rumee Singh

So yes. I think the success of the technology is, as you said, rightly earlier, that, you know, it's transparent, it's running and you don't need to really think about, oh my God, like even the blood aspect, like what's happening, what's the inventory like, it's just working for you in the background, right?

It's the same concept. For us, when we're talking or working with the beneficiaries or low income households, you know, it should just work for them, like not having that hurdle. So when we're working with blockchain, a lot of folks have asked like, you know, these folks don't even have access to like technology, how do we expect them to know what blockchain is?

And I'm like, they don't need to know it's blockchain. They-- they don't need to know it's the technology that's supporting them, but it's just the value that they're getting out of it, right? So it's very much if you compare that with the Internet or like even email, you don't need to know how my voice is coming to you, like how my video is, it's just working for us, right?

So we are, you know, it's working in the background, technology is doing its job, and we are able to get that value and do more than that, right? So the technology doesn't bog us down. So when we are working with organisations who are using our dashboard or our tools or applications, the goal is for them to not think about blockchain, that it's working for them.

Technological leapfrogging and the challenges with all forms of literacy.

Rumee Singh

And then when it comes to the end-user, the beneficiaries, so Michele, like we are working with communities or people who don't have access to even smartphones, right? And then some folks who do it, they're using like the Nokia phones, and when I was in the field one time, I met these two women, and they were struggling where the SMS button, like the icon was in like a feature phone. So I can't expect them-- we can't expect them to be like, Oh, it's gonna be like in a blockchain, I get this, I do that.

So that struggle is real, and then we have to adapt accordingly. Like for this particular example as well with the not knowing the SMS icon, and we were sending them messages and they could not read or write. So they were like this doesn't make any sense to us.

We had to pivot and then we were like, well, we have to send them voice calls, in their localised language. So even in the midst of the project, we were like, again, we're taking things for granted.

It's an SMS, they'll see it, you know, it doesn't make sense to them. So we switched and they were getting calls and like, they were listening to it. And we started to track, you know, are they listening to the full thing? Is it making sense to them? Are they listening in 10 seconds, then they're dropping off. And then the human intervention part is, I mean, I feel like technology can only do so much, right?

You will always need people in the field, but tech can shoulder some of the load.

Rumee Singh

So even with my conversations with the humanitarian organisations, we're not saying that we don't need people in the field, we do need them, but the idea is with the automation and with the innovation or the technology, we're going to make it more efficient for them, so things become easier.

So in the same example that I shared, like, you know, 100 folks, and then we're sending them voice calls and telling them they have to come to this place. Let's say it's an early warning. The flooding is going to happen. And then we sort of see like, 50 people have picked up the call and they've listened to the whole messaging, right? So it's sort of like guaranteed that they've listened to that. But there's like 50 folks who haven't, and then we keep on trying and we see that there's that drop off, then for the person who's going and maybe doing the megaphone thing or going out, there's like a 50 percent decrease of work. So it becomes more efficient for them. And then it's sort of like from a efficiency standpoint, it becomes less resource heavy.

So that's sort of like the example from a technology standpoint. And I think for a long time, we will still need human intervention for sure, you know, until everybody has access to phones and data and networking.

Maybe we'll reach to that point, but until that transition timeline, I think that's what the value of technology is, is to lower and mitigate that risk of not being able to reach everyone and bringing in that inclusivity, the left no one behind aspect.

Michele Ong

Absolutely. And that's actually a perfect example of the way that we do need technology that's transparent so that people can leapfrog, especially in these situations where you need to be able to leapfrog so people don't have to go through that manual way of having to understand how the technology works, because a lot of that is irrelevant.

As long as you get the solution, whatever it is, that's the important part, not the nitty gritty, how it happens. And then, the no person left behind kind of thing by filling in the gaps where the technology is helping you to facilitate understanding where these gaps are.

Rumee Singh

And I know you use the word leapfrog because in Nepal,there were so many people who could not afford a landline, right? Or the infrastructure was not there. And then when the mobile phones came in, they were able to leapfrog and similarly in Nepal, like,a lot of people don't have credit cards. So people are using their phones, you know, people who have access to smartphones, andwe've just leapfrogged from like, no credit cards to now mobile phone pay.

So, which is very interesting and amazing.

Michele Ong

Yeah. And that's a really good sign for you as well with blockchain-based technology, because if they're starting to be able to use their phones for these sorts of digital transactions, it allows you to understand what the kind of market penetration will be for when you start introducing a lot more of this kind of aid and technological innovation to be able to support people.

It's very cool. I actually love that.

The challenge of balancing expanding support opportunities and scope creep.

Michele Ong

What other aspects of the financial literacy side of things has been interesting for you guys to learn as you are evolving this product?

Rumee Singh

It's sort of like this wasn't something that we had planned, right? We were like, this is going to be the tech piece. But I think, for us really understanding that, as you said, the need of the digital and financial literacy is the necessity that brought its invention, right?

So we've been really looking at that aspect to see how we can break that barrier, work with the communities, and sort of build that in, and mobilise local communities and that aspect. So, I think we were still working on that and still building that out, you know, and working with partners to see, like, how we can put that together.

So, for example, with the Anticipatory Action Project that we're working on with the Danish Red Cross, there's a lot of awareness things that comes in, like, in the campaign that they do, right? A lot of, like songs on awareness to dramas in the community piece.

So we're trying to also see like how we can, our digital literacy, digital finance literacy, can come in and we can support them and it becomes sort of like a package of that aspect. So that definitely is there. And, we haven't done this yet, but, you know, the automated voice recordings that we've started, like, there's a huge potential for us to be able to use that as a literacy component. So, that's something that we've been working on.

And,we are an MIT Solver of 2020, we just had an event last week, and it's been an amazing platform for us. And, that sort of given us the network piece, and we've, been able to garner some support from amazing, you know, sponsors, and that sort of also has given us that avenue to like, as long as we have the support, like,how do we build that out.

So we have this support from GSR Foundation through MIT Solve last year, and then we've been using that opportunity or the funding that we've gotten to see like how we can manoeuvre ourselves into that direction, right?

Because I guess one of the challenges for us is also like, you know, there's this whole I hate to use the word scope creep, but I can't think of better word, but it's coming from a very technical mindset.

But it's almost like, you know, we're doing this and we see this problem. We're doing this and we see this problem. Like, we can't solve everything. Because, you know, we started off like, Oh, we're going to do cash and vouchers. We're just going to be a technology provider. We're just going to do this and everybody's going to do their work. And like, we realised it doesn't work that way. You know, we have to be in the field. So we sort of have been supporting the organisations in the field. And then we're like, okay, we're just going to do this. But then this whole, you know, the opportunity divide comes up like, okay, how can we support them? How do we do that?

So we were definitely trying to be in that realm. And we actually also do a lot of awareness on blockchain, like there's a small arm within the company, you know, who's working with authorities and like, you know, telling them, do you even know what you're regulating and we're working with students.

So it's sort of like, I feel like in the design thinking process, we go from like the diverging and you're laughing, Michele, but like, you know? And I try to see, like, when do we converge, when do we diverge, right? So again, in the financial, the digital literacy piece, we're sort of now diverging in that particular process to see these are the 10 things that we can do. Maybe I'll just quickly add as well,we're looking at expansion, right? So nowwe will have a project launched hopefully in a week or two with in Indonesia, and we're working with a corporate foundation and like their whole impact process.

And I think, startups struggle with that as well, right? Like your vision and mission should be very specific.

So the literacy part is there. So for us, that's like one pillar that we are very focused on and it's sort of like the foundation of everything we do now. So, yes, in any project or any work that we are doing, even in the insurance piece that we are exploring and, is backed by the MIT Solve work that we're doing, something like literacy is the core.

It's like, you can't do away with it, everything just comes down to it. So the foundation is there and, you know, technology would help us manoeuvre that be it, you know, voice recording trainings, be it in person resource-heavy training, be it online training.

So it's there for us.

Impact issues are multifaceted

Michele Ong

Yeah, absolutely. And it is so difficult. I was laughing because even though it is scope creep, when you're working in impact, when you're working in community and social spaces for this sort of thing, there is so much cross-pollination between the different areas of issues that are there that collectively create the problems that you're trying to solve anyway.

So as soon as you start picking at one, other ones start to kind of come of the woodwork.

It's like, yeah, like you said, you know, we've started off, we're going to do the money, the vouchers, we're going to help support this way. It's like, oh, but now we've got communication, we've got technological issues, we've got literacy issues, we've got digital poverty, and it's like, it just starts coming apart because the reasons why the problems exist are multifaceted as well.

Rumee Singh

Exactly.

Michele Ong

Yeah. Oh, so many challenges.

Rumee Singh

It is, but I think it's finding that thread or that through line. And for me, like, it's been impact, you know, and then even like impact is so broad though, right?

There's so many things that has to come to that. So I think we've just gone back and forth on a lot of things. And I feel like we've come to a space where we are very comfortable and we have like this vision of this is what it is. And, you know, these are the three things that we have to do to sustain so we can keep on doing this.

And then, okay, let's run this out. And I always have the discussion with my CTO. She's an amazing lady. And like, I always say, well, we're going to do this. And she's like, let's just finish this? let's figure out like the impact and let's make sure that this works.

and I'm like, okay, butmaybe these are things that we can parallelly do. So we go back and forth on that. And it's definitely as a startup, you have to keep afloat, that's there, and that also drives a lot of the things that we do. But, yeah, literacy for us is huge.

And, that I think is going to stay for a long time.

Michele Ong

Yep. Absolutely. And you know, you're talking about staying afloat with a lot of impact investment. A lot of people do find it very challenging to invest and support companies in this capacity because you know, getting that return as an investor or getting that kind of investment, it's something that they do because it's socially good.

The challenges of making impact sustainable

Michele Ong

It looks good for them to be able to support these things as philanthropists, but they also want their money back. So. as a entrepreneur in the tech space doing impact work, what-- such a broad question, what sort of other challenges do you have in terms of getting people on board to be able to help make this a sustainable enterprise?

Rumee Singh

I've been so wary of the VC world. I-- I feel like I'm sort of like in the other end when we go to all the startups and pitching and stuff.

Sowe're not backed by a VC and it's very deliberate, right? So it's kind of like, I'm so worried that this is going to dilute the whole impact angle that we have, because now we have to go into the whole ROI model and I remember I had a recent conversation with a, um,in that space, and they were like, Okay, so but there are only such number of humanitarian organisations, so what is your return going to be like, you know, we don't see the sustainability and all of that aspect.

So it's very difficult looking into the impact investments of organisations like the UNICEF Innovation Fund, like MIT Solve and like the foundations who are really focused on the impact piece. Obviously sustenance, like you can't make an impact without sustenance. But that has been likethe biggest asset for us when it comes to building that confidence, building that path. And so fortunately for us, like,we started off with the bootstrapping piece, we've got equity free investment, we've been very fortunate at the awards or the funding that has come in that has really helped us.

And then now we've started to have this revenue cycle and that sort of really helped us to, you know, keep that moving. And we've also got folks who are really interested in like understanding 'well you guys have done this, like, how can we go into web3'? So we've been able to advise, again in the impact space, consult and say, look, this is what we've been doing, this is what you can do. So that has also given us some revenue, so we are in profit now, and, um, which is great.

Like, so I'm-- again I think the biggest challenge is like, how do we scale, right, without VC funding. And the whole notion behind impact investment has been great recently, so we're really looking into that impact investment part and where the folks who are the stakeholders are more focused on the impact rather than the ROI. But currently at this space, we're very, comfortable in that aspect, and we want to see if with an Indonesia expansion, how that's going to go, and we're really looking at that as a next step.

Apart from that, I think, um, coming from a developing country, it gets a little tricky at times, like, you know, being in Nepal and being able to seeif you're being taken seriously or not, versus being in the US and coming from a developed country.

I think from the seriousness aspect, sometimes I feel like if that's limiting us at times, you know, the regulation is always there, obviously. I think for us, Indonesia is like getting outside of the regulation space to see like, you know, the whole technology is not stifled by that, but that definitely has been stifling for usand the scalability, I think.

But it's very exciting again, you know, Nepal, like the talent is amazing. It's very fulfilling to see that, you know, we've been able to create jobs and like, keep people here, even for a couple of years, because there's this term called brain drain, Michele, I don't know if you know, all of these amazing talent leaving the country.

And, we're like, if I'm able to keep them here for a couple of years as well, then that would be amazing. And,having lived, as an immigrant outside of the country, I know it's very difficult to come back and I don't expect, you know, people to be able to do and come back easily, but it's amazing, and you don't actually have to be-- come back to the country to give back, right. There's a lot of folks from Nepal who are abroad, and people are giving back to the community, even when we are not in the country.

And as an entrepreneur,I feel like there's a lot you can do even if you're not in the country and I'm so amazed by the team and the young talent that we have here, who are very amazing, and with technology, I feel like there's no limit, right? Like you have all of these resources and you don't need like this fancy lab or NASA to be creating this rocket trade, but it's just your internet and your curiosity and need andit's very amazing to see that.

So I feel like I sort of digressed from your question, Michele, and like ended up somewhere completely different.

Michele Ong

That is actually really perfect, because there you are trying to solve another socio-economic problem with brain drain. It actually leads in perfectly into my last question for you. If people are wanting to get into the space that you're in, what advice should they listen to and what advice should they ignore?

Rumee Singh

The, the one thing that I struggled with was like, you were destined to be this or like, you really look at, okay, those people know exactly what they want to do. And I feel like it's totally fine. You don't need to know. And it actually, you can change, the path at any given time.

For now, like I'm really, as I mentioned, the scope creep and everything, but we are really looking at what is the right path. And there's really enjoying the path and really enjoying that journey versus thinking of that end goal is so important. And, I think it's very, very important for us to really listen to your gut and be sort of like aware of what you are doing.

And actually, Michele, I recently had the opportunity to work with a coach through the MIT Solve program. And just having a coach and really talking through the whole process and things that I ignored was very, very like revealing to me and it's really changed my perspective and the confidence, the self doubt that I had, and all of these things like has really helped me come to terms with and understand that piece.

So maybe not everybody has an access to a coach or a mentor, but I wouldlike, you know, talk to people, because now with mental health and everything as an entrepreneur and with, as a founder, there's so many stress to keep things afloat and all of that, but having that sounding board, being cognizant about your mental health is also very important and, I feel like things will fit in. Things will come in. You just have to keep going.

Michele Ong

That's incredible advice. but yeah, it's being able to have time to reflect and talk to people and just have a sounding board about what you're thinking and what you're feeling and, you know, where you feel you are. I think that's great.

Well, thank you so much, Rumee, for having this amazing conversation, and sharing about your journey with Rahat.

I love what you're doing and I loved how much-- I loved the scope creep.

Rumee Singh

Thank you, Michele. I had so much fun. Like, it's just talking to a friend and I just loved it. Thank you for making this so easy. This was absolutely amazing.

So I really, really appreciate it.

Michele Ong

Oh, it's absolutely my pleasure. And it was such a pleasure just speaking with you today and continue our conversation from Sydney last year.

Yeah. So you so much, Rumee, and I hope you have an amazing rest of your day.

Rumee Singh

Thank you, Michele.

Michele Ong

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