Water policy and research with Dr Kat Taylor

Michele Ong

Welcome to STEAM Powered where I have conversations with women in STEAM to learn a little bit about what they do and who they are. I'm your host, Michele Ong. My guest today is Dr Kat Taylor. Kat is a researcher at the ANU's Crawford School of Public Policy, and is also managing editor at the Global Water Forum. She has experience in a variety of areas in water research ranging from policy through to irrigation. Join us as we talk about dance fitness, water governance, and the Global Water Forum.

Hello, Kat. Thank you for joining me today. It's been a bit of a challenge this morning, but hopefully we'll be able to keep going, and yeah, find a little bit more about you.

Kat Taylor

Thanks, Michele.

Why environmental science

Michele Ong

So well, I guess, we'll start on where you began.

You studied environmental science and conservation biology, and now you're working in policy in the area of water governance and water justice. But what prompted you to get into environmental science to begin with?

Kat Taylor

I guess, when I was in high school, I really liked different sorts of science, and particularly liked biology. And the great thing about environmental science is it brings together a whole lot of different science-related disciplines like, bit of chemistry, bit of biology, bit of ecology, bit of statistics, bit of atmospheric science. And so you get to look at the– a whole swag of, of, of different sciences and you also get to work on– in an environment-related field, which is also something that I'm very interested in.

Working towards a focus on water and water policy

Michele Ong

Okay. That's fantastic. So how did you progress to being– to your focus of water justice and water governance?

Kat Taylor

These things are not always straightforward.

Michele Ong

No.

Kat Taylor

After I graduated with my undergraduate science degrees, I had a few different roles that were more in perhaps more education-related roles around household water efficiency and drinking-water risk management. And I suppose I slowly became more and more interested in policy and how decisions are made that impact on people's lives, but also impact on, on water. And so when I had the opportunity to do a PhD, recently, I wanted to focus much more on the, the policy side of it, which is great to be able to do.

The importance of water

Michele Ong

Fantastic. So what, actually, like, did you fall into the water side of things? Or was it something that you intentionally tried to get into when you were, you know, doing the water efficiency work?

Kat Taylor

It was probably more of an accident, I guess.

Just splashing in there. So --

Michele Ong

Yeah.

Kat Taylor

After I finished my undergraduate studies, I was offered and Honours project, and it was about wastewater irrigation and the different technologies for taking recycled water and using it to safely irrigate lawns and gardens and finding out a bit more about that. And I, I guess that set the trajectory for the rest of my career, and I just kept working on different water-related projects. But, I mean, I really love water. As it turns out, is really important and links to so many other things.

Michele Ong

Yeah.

The scope of water governance

Kat Taylor

And in Australia, particularly because Australia is a really dry continent with really unpredictable rainfall compared to many other parts of the globe, it's particularly pressing. But also, water– there's a huge water market, and it underpins a whole lot of industry. So water is actually really powerful in the financial economic sense as well.

So these questions of who gets to access water and how, how these decisions get made are really critical.

Michele Ong

So that's pretty much, like, water governance covers just the way that water is sourced and distributed.

Kat Taylor

Yeah. Yeah. That's that's right. So water governance is the, the processes and rules around how water decisions are made.

Sometimes we're talking about water governance of drinking water services and other times we're talking about the water governance of how water as a resource gets moved from one place to another. Or, you know, is it used here? Is it used there? And how is it used? Who and how those decisions are made about, you know, how we regulate it and make sure that people are using water wisely and according to the rules. So those are all governance related issues.

Michele Ong

So in your experience, like, with all the work that you've done so far as well as with the Global Water Forum, which we'll get to shortly. Are these sorts of issues common globally or are there any that are specifically unique to Australian issues and policies around water governance?

Kat Taylor

I guess my interpretation is that a lot of water issues are fairly common, but, of course, contexts are really different from one place to another. So they, I guess, they look a little bit different and they're approached differently. But often, you know, some of these core questions are quite similar. So you know, water governance truly is something that's a global issue even though that's not, not– I'm not suggesting that there should be a single global–

Michele Ong

Solution. Yeah.

Kat Taylor

Yeah.

Michele Ong

Is there anything particularly interesting or pressing about governance in Australia for water? Or is there just too many?

Kat Taylor

Okay. There's a couple of issues. And many of them are on the Global Water Forum website, which I encourage people to look at and read. We had a really great article posted up a few weeks ago from indigenous water knowledge and issues editor, Kate Harriden, and she looks at some of those questions around indigenous science and knowledge, but also indigenous sovereignty and self-determination rights and responsibilities for water and how that plays out. So I think that is– it's certainly being identified as an issue that's important and much more, it would be great to see much more progress on that issue, so.

But yes. There are– there is certainly a lot. There's–

Michele Ong

Certainly a lot.

Kat Taylor

Going on. We don't have time to unpack all of that today, Michele.

Michele Ong

No. We don't.

Kat Taylor

Grab water, grab water in Australia.

Michele Ong

It's a little bit too broad.

Kat Taylor

Yeah. Don't get me started, I'll just be here for hours.

The Global Water Forum

Michele Ong

We could do that. But yeah. So tell me about the Global Water Forum. Like, what do they provide? What do they offer?

Kat Taylor

So Global Water Forum, which you can find at globalwaterforum.org, is a website where water researchers and practitioners, or anyone who has interest in water can contribute articles. Global Water Forum is very committed to open access. So all of our– anyone, anyone is free to access our articles, and we also have links to a whole bunch of different water resources that are also open access, such as different ebooks or lecture series that anyone can read or watch if you like to.

At the moment, Global Water Forum is really trying to support and amplify some voices around water that are not necessarily heard often enough. And so recently, we've got a social justice water topic editor onboard to, you know, to help working with that. So yeah. Really Global Water Forum looks– there's a whole lot of challenges around water governance in the 21st century, and we just focus on providing information that's accessible around that.

Michele Ong

Great. So this is just for everyone. This, it's not just for policymakers or people who are actually involved in governance. It's like, everybody from students onwards? Yeah.

Kat Taylor

Any I mean, yeah, everyone can read it. It's probably, I think probably a little bit more focused on wat- water nerds than anyone else, but anyone can read it. And one of the things that we do try and do is have explain articles where we take particular water concepts or topics that are maybe, people haven't heard of, and explain, try and explain them in, you know, simple terms and, and break it down, and demystify some of these technical terms that get, you know, that sometimes get thrown around.

Another thing we do is have articles that are sort of short potted versions of research articles that– and once again, just trying to break down some of the concepts, which I think is is really great for readers, but also for authors to share their work with a wider audience. Because, you know, maybe there's someone who hasn't ever thought about different ways of modelling I don't know, the fresh water monitoring station and what the optimal mix of locations is or, you know, some other topic.

Or what, also is maybe someone hasn't thought about particular– particular water justice issues that are happening in South America, for example. And again, it's bringing together the different strands of water governance, and providing them there in open access.

Michele Ong

That's such a fantastic resource just to be able to, you know, let everybody know about this kind of information because honestly, hadn't really thought about it myself before when I started seeing the kind of things that you were working on policy around it. It was just really interesting. It's just so much about it and It's a lot more to it than, you know, the one that we hear about the most, which is Murray-Darling. There's just so much more scope and, yeah, complexity around all these issues.

Broadening public knowledge of the scope of water governance

Kat Taylor

Mhmm. Yeah. To go back to one of your earlier questions, Michele, about what are issues in Australia. Maybe something that I would like to highlight is that we do talk a lot about the Murray-Darling Basin, and that is a really important place to be putting our attention. But Australia is also much bigger than that. I mean, you're a West Australian like me. We have water here too. And –

Michele Ong

Yeah.

Kat Taylor

– Likewise, through northern Australia. So I think something that I think is important for Australia to focus on is what's happening outside of the Murray-Darling Basin as well and putting some kind of critical analysis on that and not having those, both those issues, but also those innovations that are coming from other regions being overshadowed by what's happening in the Murray-Darling Basin.

Michele Ong

Do you have any examples of the kind of innovations that are out there at the moment relating to that?

The Martuwarra Fitzroy River Council

Kat Taylor

Let's see. One really interesting thing that's happening in the Kimberley is the Martuwarra Fitzroy River Council. Which is a water governance body that traditional owners have set up that brings together different native title groups along a river called the Matuwarra, otherwise known as the Fitzroy River. And there's a really great paper written by Anne Poelina about that, which we can maybe put a link to in the comments.

Michele Ong

Definitely.

Kat Taylor

That's yeah. But that's a really great example of an innovative water governance structure that's emerged from the regions is not necessarily, like, coming out of the National Water Initiative, which is our national framework. It's coming from traditional owners, and they're doing some great stuff there.

Michele Ong

So a lot of smaller communities developing their own infrastructure and processes around management. Or is this unique?

Kat Taylor

Look, there's, there's lots of things that are happening all, all through Australia and northern Australia. I feel like this, this council is doing some interesting interesting stuff. Yeah. And and that's around river governance and and cultural governance. So, yeah, I'd encourage everyone to to check out their work. And there's also there's a web, they've got a website as well.

Michele Ong

Oh excellent. We'll link that as well.

Being managing editor at the Global Water Forum

Michele Ong

Okay. So at the Global Water Forum as managing editor, what does that involve?

Kat Taylor

So I have a great– I get to work with a wonderful team of people, our topic editors, and they are people that have experience in different water topics they're located around the world. And so I work with them to find interesting articles and bring them to the readers every week. And so with topic editors and I, you know, sometimes reach out to authors and say, hey, what do you think about an article like, this would you be interested in in writing it and then kind of shaping those.

So there's a bit of that, a bit of working with a fantastic senior editor who manages our social media.

The GWF podcast

Kat Taylor

And we also have a podcast which is put together by our senior editor and I just have a bit of a coordinating role around that.

Michele Ong

Oh, that's great. So what sort of topics do you cover in the podcast?

Kat Taylor

They're all water related topics.

Michele Ong

Of course.

Kat Taylor

We do try and– of course. So we get different challenges. So the, the podcast does long form interviews with– usually with water governance experts from around the world and then just looking at particular issues in in different regions and a bit of around the politics of those.

So yeah. Check it out.

Bonus Question 1: What hobby or interest do you have that is most unrelated to your field of work?

Michele Ong

Yeah. Definitely. I guess I can talk about some of the like, less work related topics. So what hobby or interest did you have that's most unrelated to your field of work?

Kat Taylor

Well, I do a dance fitness class called Funk n Fit. And when I say I, I do I mean, I take part as a participant in that. And so—

Michele Ong

Yeah.

Kat Taylor

— it's funky, and I'm getting fit. So that's pretty fun. And that's, that's a, you can only find it in Broome, put it's put on by the wonderful dance instructor, Justine De Bruyn.

Michele Ong

Yeah.

Kat Taylor

And I also previously used to present radio. I presented, I presented the breakfast show on Radio Goolarri here in Broome in the past, and also I used to have my own podcast. It's not the Global Water Forum one, but a few Australian based environmental podcasts, which, with some friends, and that was always that was a great thing to do. It's something I've put on hold for now though.

Michele Ong

So with Funk n Fit, tell me more. Like, what makes it unique to Broome?

Kat Taylor

It's unique to Broome in that that Broome is the only place that you can do it. And—

Michele Ong

Yeah.

Kat Taylor

— Justine is, she's a fantastic instructor and a wonderful dancer, and she just knows how to make fitness fun and bringing great music and get everyone there shaking and strutting their, their stuff. And, but also doing a lot of squats and strength work as well. Just don't even notice that you're working hard. So–

Michele Ong

That's the best way.

Kat Taylor

So that's Funk n Fit. And if you're ever in Broome, you can just drop into classes that are very reasonably priced.

Michele Ong

Little plug right there.

Kat Taylor

Yeah. Yeah. Get into it.

Michele Ong

So is it a specific style or is it just a blend of everything?

Kat Taylor

Look, I guess. It's a little bit Zumba-ry maybe. A little bit dance hall. A little bit– just different kind of contemporary dance styles.

Michele Ong

That's cool.

Kat Taylor

So yeah. And I've heard people say about Justine, that she doesn't teach dancing, she teaches happiness, which I think is a really–

Michele Ong

Aw, that's brilliant.

Kat Taylor

–great description of, yeah, someone who inspires the people around her to enjoy life and being together and having fun and dancing.

Michele Ong

That sounds much better than doing anything like spin class.

Kat Taylor

It's pretty great. I knew we could clone Justine and just have one of her in every, in every city.

Michele Ong

That'd be cool. Something different for everyone to do. Cool. And next question.

Bonus Question 2: Which childhood book holds the strongest memories for you?

Michele Ong

Which childhood book holds the strongest memories for you?

Kat Taylor

Maybe. Oh dear. That's I, I mean, I read so many books when I was, like, a kid, and I went through different phases of different types of types of books. Yeah. I don't even know where to to start with that.

I went through a real Anne of Green Gables phase. Yeah. So that probably it holds pretty strong memories. Anne with an E.

Michele Ong

So kind other genres did you read?

Kat Taylor

Oh, God.

Michele Ong

Everything.

Kat Taylor

Everything. Different kind of young adult literature, sci-fi, fantasy.

Michele Ong

You didn't discriminate.

Kat Taylor

The classic. You you know, things like The Secret Garden.

Not really. I really wasn't.

The only thing I didn't read were, were horror, were horror books because things like Goosebumps were a little bit too scary for me. So–

Michele Ong

Yeah.

Kat Taylor

–there you go.

Michele Ong

That's good. Broad range of reading anyways. That was good.

Bonus Question 3: What advice you would give someone who wants to do what you do? Or what advice should they ignore?

Michele Ong

Lastly, what advice would you give someone who would like to pursue the work that you're doing? Or what kind of advice would you tell them to ignore?

Kat Taylor

Look, I think what I found really useful for me is not everyone wants to or needs to do a PhD. And so I think if, if people aren't sure about it, let me tell you that you can do it with assistance, but also you do not have to do it.

So only go down that path if you if you feel like you wanna commit to it. But there's something that I personally found helpful was having a big break between my undergraduate studies and my, my PhD studies to do lots of different types of work. Live in different places. Actually, fig– really figure out what I was interested in and what I wanna, wanted to do, and where am I in my career to go?

And so I think if there are people who feel like, around a study, if they want a bit more time to, to take that and, you know, let life experience teach you where your passions actually lie, but also at the same time, I would probably say that I feel like my career has been very structured, and that has a whole host of pitfalls and problems with it, as well.

And so having a focused direction and knowing where you wanna go is also quite important.

Michele Ong

So what sort of pitfalls did you have in, I guess, the journey while you're trying to figure this out?

Kat Taylor

I think I mean, there were times where I was working in roles that were perhaps I mean, where I still learnt interesting things, but they weren't necessarily particularly relevant to what I've ended up doing. And, you know, sometimes that's, you know, that, that's part of it, and you need to do those things.

And other times, it is you know, do reflect on things and think, Oh I could've, you know, focused at energy a little bit more. So I, I guess that's mean, like, really it's much, if you have a clear vision about what you wanna do, it's much easier to go after that and to you know, look for different opportunities and get the training that you need and not get distracted with, you know, there's so many, there's so many things that we can do at that time and just just figuring out what are the ones that are really going to be most helpful and you get the most out of.

Michele Ong

Good advice. Being able to have a focus so that you at least can direct your energies in the right way.

So is doing a PhD something you'd always considered? Or is it something that you only came to the decision to once you'd had a little bit more experience and work.

Kat Taylor

No. I, I initially said that I was not going to do one. I think when I was in my twenties, I felt like I had enough time in different types of schools. And it was only later on that I had some time to think about it that I thought, Okay. I wouldn't mind going back and, you know, really thinking in that academic and, and theoretical way, way again. So.

Michele Ong

Yeah. And it lets you hone a specific topic that has taken your interest over that time.

Kat Taylor

Yes. Right.

Michele Ong

So would you like viewers or listeners to reach out to you or find out more about what you do?

Kat Taylor

If the listeners are interested in water, I'd encourage them to go the Global Water Forum, have a read, maybe write an article and send it in. If they– the contact details are on the website to contact the managing editor. They wanna pitch a- pitch a story. And yeah.

Michele Ong

Yes. Thanks so much for this. And really appreciate you taking the time and suffering through all of our technological issues this morning. Yeah. All the best.

Thank you.

Kat Taylor

Yeah. Thanks so much, Michele. I love being on STEAM Powered and having a bit of a chat. Have a great morning.

Michele Ong

You too.

The issues around water and the way we source and use it are complex and touch on so many areas ranging from rights through the conservation and efficiency. So it's brilliant that we've got organisations like the Global Water Forum who provide an open resource to share the challenges and initiatives around water governance.

Kat also wanted to share that one more piece of career advice that she found valuable is to find good mentors. Seek out people who you admire, respect, and enjoy working with because good mentors make an enormous difference to career development.

You should also not be afraid to leave a toxic work environment if you need to.

To learn more about Kat and what we discussed on the show, or to connect with us, please visit the STEAM Powered website at steampoweredshow.com. You can also reach out to Kat on Twitter at @Katselenataylor.

If you enjoyed this conversation, please let me know. Subscribe to this channel, leave a comment below, and share this with your geeky and geek-curious friends. To find out other ways to support STEAM Powered visit steampoweredshow.com/support. Thanks for watching.